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Nov 29, 2012
11/12
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CNBC
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fuel will youly lost sea. >>> now, litz listen to, this fiscal cliff or no fiscal cliff, your taxes will probably go up anyway. it's all because of obama. >> the economy, slam investors and triple capitalism. say no to nationalized health care system, no to blanket tax increases and that means let low. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- what starts with adding a friend... ♪ ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is on, offering some of our best values of the year. this is the pursuit of perfection. bp has paid overthe people of bp twenty-threeitment to the gulf. billion dollars to help those affected and to cover cleanup costs. today, the beaches and gulf are open, and many areas are reporting their best tourism seasons in years. and bp's also committed to america. we support nearly 250,000 jobs and invest more here than anywhere else. we're working to fuel america for generations to come. our commitment has never been stronger. with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process
fuel will youly lost sea. >>> now, litz listen to, this fiscal cliff or no fiscal cliff, your taxes will probably go up anyway. it's all because of obama. >> the economy, slam investors and triple capitalism. say no to nationalized health care system, no to blanket tax increases and that means let low. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- what starts with adding a friend... ♪ ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend. ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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KQED
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falls off the fiscal cliff. if the cliff is averted... >> then i think you will see silver, platinum, palladium-- the so-called white metals-- outperform gold, because they will tend to outperform in a risk-on environment in a cyclical upturn. >> reporter: now, the other scenario: >> in an environment where we go off the fiscal cliff and we see continued problems on the debt side for the u.s., i think the gold price outperforms the white metals. >> reporter: gold's price will also depend on whether central banks continue to diversify their holdings into gold, and whether they implement more quantitative easing to boost growth. the outlook for platinum is a little more complicated. there have been major supply disruptions due to labor unrest in south africa, which produces nearly all of the world's platinum. it also depends on demand. >> europe is a key part of the platinum demand picture. if europe can recover, certainly that's going to bode well for platinum demand. if the price trades higher, it may affect som
falls off the fiscal cliff. if the cliff is averted... >> then i think you will see silver, platinum, palladium-- the so-called white metals-- outperform gold, because they will tend to outperform in a risk-on environment in a cyclical upturn. >> reporter: now, the other scenario: >> in an environment where we go off the fiscal cliff and we see continued problems on the debt side for the u.s., i think the gold price outperforms the white metals. >> reporter: gold's price...
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if we got the fiscal cliff. gerri: with the defense cuts come if we do over the cliff, it will cost $100 million or over that? >> 137 million. gerri: would this put you into the red? >> it certainly could. we are still looking at obama's health care plan and what it will do to the state budget. the federal strings are tied. i asked the president about this. the federal funds that come down to the state as you may cuts -- we can still have the strength attached to it. it doesn't give leeway to meet your unique circumstances in our state. we are all different. different budgets, different employment rates, different constitutions, different laws. different styles of living and means within our budget. give us some flexibility. gerri: i expect you to be a little bit more upbeat about the fiscal cliff, but i have to tell you, you sound like a lot of people in washington today. concerns over whether these leaders can get together and find common ground and resolve this issue. it would be meaningful to stay like yours
if we got the fiscal cliff. gerri: with the defense cuts come if we do over the cliff, it will cost $100 million or over that? >> 137 million. gerri: would this put you into the red? >> it certainly could. we are still looking at obama's health care plan and what it will do to the state budget. the federal strings are tied. i asked the president about this. the federal funds that come down to the state as you may cuts -- we can still have the strength attached to it. it doesn't give...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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but again only on news of setbacks to the fiscal cliff talks. we're not going to go in and buy anything these days. you'll get some representative congressman, senator come on say you stupid idiot. you bought stock and i'm talking on a microphone. i'm sending the stock market down because there's no progress. we have not one but two huge analyst days next week. only one an opportunity to buy. starbucks is coming to town on wednesday. you better get ready for one terrific show as the one and only howard schultz i believe will tell you that business is smoking in so many places in china to the united states and that tebana will be the next generation starbucks as soon as the merger is completed. the next day yum brands. it's coming to town. that company will have some explaining to do. i will have more on what yums needs to tell us. the sting of the earnings shortfall last night will still be with us no matter how good kentucky fried chicken might taste. also we hear from lulu lem athletics. i got a situation for how to trade this wild stock. wait
but again only on news of setbacks to the fiscal cliff talks. we're not going to go in and buy anything these days. you'll get some representative congressman, senator come on say you stupid idiot. you bought stock and i'm talking on a microphone. i'm sending the stock market down because there's no progress. we have not one but two huge analyst days next week. only one an opportunity to buy. starbucks is coming to town on wednesday. you better get ready for one terrific show as the one and...
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Nov 29, 2012
11/12
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CNBC
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we go off the fiscal cliff. 2013 comes. we go into recession. doesn't that hit corporate earnings, which, of course, has been the best part of this recovery anywhere? >> there's no question about that. i would contend that the market has probably already factored most of that in. when you can buy a number of stocks -- in the hodges small cap fund, we have a number of stocks trading below their growth rate. that's telling you that the market is not expecting good growth. when you can buy stocks that are growing at 20% a year at ten times earnings, that's a good valuation. there are a number of those situations there that we're seeing left and right. >> got to go, guys. >> okay. >> sorry, jeff. you know how that works. you guys on the website, you get unlimited amount of space. just go on. >> tell me editor. >> i know. >> thanks, guys. see you soon. let's get over to jackie deangelis with a quick market flash. >> hey, there. watching shares of super value tanking on a headline that talks have stalled. reportedly struggling to get financing for a s
we go off the fiscal cliff. 2013 comes. we go into recession. doesn't that hit corporate earnings, which, of course, has been the best part of this recovery anywhere? >> there's no question about that. i would contend that the market has probably already factored most of that in. when you can buy a number of stocks -- in the hodges small cap fund, we have a number of stocks trading below their growth rate. that's telling you that the market is not expecting good growth. when you can buy...
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Dec 6, 2012
12/12
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WUSA
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-- off that fiscal cliff. after all, we will go over the cliff and there will be cuts which should gland the hearts of republicans and -- gladden the hearts of republicans and then we will have more revenue which will grand the hearts of democrats. we -- gladden the hearts of dems. we will very likely go back -- democrats. we will very likely go back and elect the same group of people to do the same bad job and then this. the football player from kansas city who killed the mother of his child and then himself, he said bob costas was wrong when he argued that cassandra perkins would still be alive if belcher doesn't have a gun. what next? control on cars? they are used in more homicide than guns. we need to amp up our education on certain freedoms and liberties and put larger penalties on those who abuse them, but nick, that is the point. we don't ban cars because they're potentially dangerous, but there are significant controls on their use and ownership. they're registered, licensed and you have to have train
-- off that fiscal cliff. after all, we will go over the cliff and there will be cuts which should gland the hearts of republicans and -- gladden the hearts of republicans and then we will have more revenue which will grand the hearts of democrats. we -- gladden the hearts of dems. we will very likely go back -- democrats. we will very likely go back and elect the same group of people to do the same bad job and then this. the football player from kansas city who killed the mother of his child...
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Dec 1, 2012
12/12
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CNNW
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the week center on a big worry. >> this fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> we could actually go off the fiscal cliff. >> we're facing a fiscal grand canyon. >> okay. so it's a big deal. question is can these guys strike a deal? >> i've got to repeat. i've got a pen. >> meantime, damage control for u.n. ambassador susan rice out to smooth things over with this week with republicans after those benghazi talking point. >> exextremist elements came to the consulate as this was unfolding. >> it didn't work. now their talking points. >> we are significantly troubled. >> i want to say that i'm more troubled today. >> democrats shot back. >> they are not only blaming her for this intelligence report, they are trying to blame her for the actual tragic event. >> i've seen so much crazy stuff in this house could i write a book. >> or make an internet video. >> not be a true god-fearing person and be on a television show like that. >> that's actor angus t. jones, the "two and a half men" star caught slamming his own tv show. >> if you watch "two and a half men," please don't watch "two a
the week center on a big worry. >> this fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> fiscal cliff. >> we could actually go off the fiscal cliff. >> we're facing a fiscal grand canyon. >> okay. so it's a big deal. question is can these guys strike a deal? >> i've got to repeat. i've got a pen. >> meantime, damage control for u.n. ambassador susan rice out to smooth things over with this week with republicans after those benghazi talking point. >>...
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Dec 3, 2012
12/12
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MSNBCW
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you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was just flabbergasted. i looked at him and said you can't be serious. i have just never seen anything like it. >> yes, indeed, it seems that republicans are not quite sure what to make of the president taking a harder line across the bargaining table. >> you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is roll over and do what i ask. >> i think we're going over the cliff. it's pretty clear to me they made a political calculation. the president's plan is just, quite frankly, a joke. >> i'm not sure about that, senator graham, but there will be plenty of time for jok
you guys are willing to go off the fiscal cliff? >> it republicans are not willing to let rates go back up, and we think they should go back to the clinton levels, a the a time when the american economy was doing exceptionally well, then there will not be an agreement. >> while geithner was drawing a line in the sand, house speaker john boehner was busy trying to lift his jaw off the flar after geithner presented the president's debt reduction plans to him last week. >> i was...
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Dec 1, 2012
12/12
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FOXNEWSW
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we have the fiscal cliff negotiations going on on capitol hill. for young republicans right now, as you listen to what both sides are saying in this debate, where do young republicans fall on raising taxes for the wealthiest to help pay down the debt? >> sure. thank you for having us on today, of course. but i think it's just important that as a party, our candidates are making sure that our voices are modernizing, not necessarily moderating. we don't necessarily have to fundamentally change who we are as a party and who we are as republicans. we have to make sure that our voices on taxes, on spending on the economy, are heard loud and clear. just as meghan said, the economic issues are driving many young voters indeed. so where we stand on taxes is that they should be low, but most importantly, in regards to college students and younger voters, we need to make sure that when we graduate college, that we're put to that a job environment that we're able to live productively, that we're not burdened by higher taxes, that we're not burdened by the di
we have the fiscal cliff negotiations going on on capitol hill. for young republicans right now, as you listen to what both sides are saying in this debate, where do young republicans fall on raising taxes for the wealthiest to help pay down the debt? >> sure. thank you for having us on today, of course. but i think it's just important that as a party, our candidates are making sure that our voices are modernizing, not necessarily moderating. we don't necessarily have to fundamentally...
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Dec 7, 2012
12/12
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FOXNEWSW
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geithner announces he wants to go over the fiscal cliff. they have to understand the person they are negotiating with he views it more through ideology than the economy. in his view, it's the equivalent of a grain of sand on the beach. even if he gets what he wants wishes is to raise the top rates from 35% to 39.6%, the revenues would merely fund this governor for roughly 8 days. it would hardly make a dent in the yearly deficit and not even a chip of a cent off the debt. he said he would rather go over the fiscal cliff than not to raise tax rates. so obama pushing higher taxes on the top 2%, not for economic reasons but for i'd logical reasons but there is also this obvious fact. obama wants to raise the top rates for political reasons. now that is he wants to force republicans to raise tacks in order to trigger a civil war within the gop and the conservative movement, and in that respect sadly obama is having some success. now so long as this debate is focused not on cutting spending but on raising daxs and revenues with the only question
geithner announces he wants to go over the fiscal cliff. they have to understand the person they are negotiating with he views it more through ideology than the economy. in his view, it's the equivalent of a grain of sand on the beach. even if he gets what he wants wishes is to raise the top rates from 35% to 39.6%, the revenues would merely fund this governor for roughly 8 days. it would hardly make a dent in the yearly deficit and not even a chip of a cent off the debt. he said he would...
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Dec 1, 2012
12/12
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CURRENT
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is it a fiscal cliff or a slope? how dramatic will this fall off be on january 1st? or is there going to be the decision that if this decision is not made on january 1st, we'll be fine. >> they constantly talk about short-term agreement right now and then pushing important decision abouts entitlement reform taxes that kind of stuff into 2013. clearly we're not confronting a killer drop off, a fiscal cliff that we hear so often that will send the country careening into a recession after bees december 31st. this will play out across 2013. it's not going to happen all on one single day. it is a fiscal slope. some of the budget lines here in washington has tried to emphasize that point. but the problem is when you have john boehner and in the white house, folks like this in washington using the term fiscal cliff, it takes to become a reality and take on language of its own. >> eliot: it seems to me that there is an element of hysteria being created and used by some folks. you have fix the debt coalition that is away at this terror, and then you see cmbc and this business
is it a fiscal cliff or a slope? how dramatic will this fall off be on january 1st? or is there going to be the decision that if this decision is not made on january 1st, we'll be fine. >> they constantly talk about short-term agreement right now and then pushing important decision abouts entitlement reform taxes that kind of stuff into 2013. clearly we're not confronting a killer drop off, a fiscal cliff that we hear so often that will send the country careening into a recession after...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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FOXNEWSW
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my view is there is no fiscal cliff or debt cliff. there is a political cliff and he wants to push the republicans off. the debate is how much do republicans will surrender and then get blamed by their party or how much they won't surrender and get blamed for a recession. i have to say for president obama as bad as it looks it may be a winning hand. >> he's certainly playing the hand of someone who as he said in his press conference won the election. there is no compromise here. i think there is a fiscal cliff and there is a political cliff. the president has the upper hand. taxes go up in the way his base want on wealthy people and what he wants to do is say if you don't go along with me you republicans are responsible for raising taxes on the middle class and will be responsible for the recession that's almost certain to come. >> there is no serious debating over avoiding the fiscal cliff. it's a political fight. this is a democratic party that hasn't passed a budget in years. the press corps is on the same page. everyone is asking
my view is there is no fiscal cliff or debt cliff. there is a political cliff and he wants to push the republicans off. the debate is how much do republicans will surrender and then get blamed by their party or how much they won't surrender and get blamed for a recession. i have to say for president obama as bad as it looks it may be a winning hand. >> he's certainly playing the hand of someone who as he said in his press conference won the election. there is no compromise here. i think...
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Dec 5, 2012
12/12
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MSNBCW
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following the latest on the fiscal cliff fiasco. congress is facing the issue of the fiscal cliff and other tough economic decisions. why did just today republican leadership cancel tomorrow's session allowing the house to leave town with three days left on the legislative calendar? i'll talk with two democratic members of congress just and allyson schwartz and john yarmuth. i'll talk to roger simon. he has a scathing new column out on republicans. roger says, quote, listen to this, republicans have found their stab in the back. it was the minorities what done them in. that's what he wrote. we'll ask him about it. ♪ i'd like to thank eating right, whole grain, multigrain cheerios! mom, are those my jeans? [ female announcer ] people who choose more whole grain tend to weigh less than those who don't. multigrain cheerios stop! stop! stop! come back here! humans -- we are beautifully imperfect creatures living in an imperfect world. that's why liberty mutual insurance has your back with great ideas like our optional better car repla
following the latest on the fiscal cliff fiasco. congress is facing the issue of the fiscal cliff and other tough economic decisions. why did just today republican leadership cancel tomorrow's session allowing the house to leave town with three days left on the legislative calendar? i'll talk with two democratic members of congress just and allyson schwartz and john yarmuth. i'll talk to roger simon. he has a scathing new column out on republicans. roger says, quote, listen to this, republicans...
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Dec 2, 2012
12/12
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MSNBCW
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fiscal cliff blame. nasa's decision on doomsday 2012. . and kim kardashian sparks a proprotest. >>> we have new chilling details in the tragedy that stuns kansas city. they are prepping for gameday just 20 24 hours after a suicide. tom chong is live where this tragic story ended. tom, good day to you. there what's it like there? >> reporter: it is subdued. we stopped at the tailgating activities. there is tailgating going on but the mood is heavy. just 24 hours ago when belcher pulled out a gun is and shot himself. that event left this team in shock. shots rang out at this home, the victim 22-year-old cassandra perkins. >> when we arrived a lady came out and said her daughter had been shot by -- she died a short time later. belcher shot perkins following an argument. the two were parents of a 3-month-old baby. just 10 minutes after the murder, belcher was next to the stadium with a gun talking to his coach and general manager. he thanked them for what they did for him. then pulled the trigger. >> as officers pulled up, they heard the gunsh
fiscal cliff blame. nasa's decision on doomsday 2012. . and kim kardashian sparks a proprotest. >>> we have new chilling details in the tragedy that stuns kansas city. they are prepping for gameday just 20 24 hours after a suicide. tom chong is live where this tragic story ended. tom, good day to you. there what's it like there? >> reporter: it is subdued. we stopped at the tailgating activities. there is tailgating going on but the mood is heavy. just 24 hours ago when belcher...
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Nov 29, 2012
11/12
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CNBC
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are they worried that if indeed we get close to the fiscal cliff or we go over the fiscal cliff that that will affect their businesses? >> well, for us, we primarily focus on working with small, medium size businesses. fiscal cliffs and politics don't come up much in our conversations. we focus on creating customer unique rewards. i think businesses know from a consumer standpoint, it's greater than 90% are disposable income is spent within a couple of miles of your home. focusing on local, helping businesses retain customers an drive frequency in their local markets can really help drive through any potential impact of a fiscal cliff. >> jeff, what are you hearing in the valley about the fiscal cliff, how concerned are the other people that you talk to, the inknow vnovators out there, are millionaires, billionaires and many of whom are trying to start new businesses in the valley. >> you know, the perception is more about -- the talk is more about the potential impact on business and allowing -- not taking action to address this issue and letting it expire is bad for business. every
are they worried that if indeed we get close to the fiscal cliff or we go over the fiscal cliff that that will affect their businesses? >> well, for us, we primarily focus on working with small, medium size businesses. fiscal cliffs and politics don't come up much in our conversations. we focus on creating customer unique rewards. i think businesses know from a consumer standpoint, it's greater than 90% are disposable income is spent within a couple of miles of your home. focusing on...
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Dec 4, 2012
12/12
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FOXNEWSW
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the fiscal cliff? we'll examine the growing evidence that indicates this may be obama's secret plan. we'll have much more. hannity starts right here, right now. >> welcome to hannity. there are late breaking developments tonight related to the fiscal cliff battle being waged in washington. now, late this afternoon house speaker john boehner sent a letter to the president detailing a bold counter offer to the administration's plan. the g.o.p. proposal does not include a tax increase on the so-caldwell thee but does contain $800 billion in revenue through tax reform, another $600 billion in health savings and much more. all told, the net savings amount to around 2.2 trillion dollars. the white house responded to this letter by saying that the president is, quote, willing to compromise but not on the subject of making job creators pay more in taxes. however, what our tax and spend commander-in-chief fails to understand is that putting money into the hands of you, the american people, is the single best wa
the fiscal cliff? we'll examine the growing evidence that indicates this may be obama's secret plan. we'll have much more. hannity starts right here, right now. >> welcome to hannity. there are late breaking developments tonight related to the fiscal cliff battle being waged in washington. now, late this afternoon house speaker john boehner sent a letter to the president detailing a bold counter offer to the administration's plan. the g.o.p. proposal does not include a tax increase on the...
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Nov 30, 2012
11/12
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FBC
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the fiscal cliff, no game. the a-team tells us whether the president will listen or whether president will listen or whether he will get ready to anand we can save you 10% on ground shipping over the ups store. look this isn' my first christmas. these deals all seem great atthe time... but later, not so much. this isn't that kind of deal. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small busins earns 2% cash back on every purchase, ery day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ] [ garth ] why settle for less? great businesses deserve great rewards! awesome!!! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? lou: you can a environmentalists to the growing list of susan rice as potenal nomination to t secretary of state. that is what she needed, little bit more o
the fiscal cliff, no game. the a-team tells us whether the president will listen or whether president will listen or whether he will get ready to anand we can save you 10% on ground shipping over the ups store. look this isn' my first christmas. these deals all seem great atthe time... but later, not so much. this isn't that kind of deal. [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ]...
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Dec 3, 2012
12/12
by
CNBC
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eye 52
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it could be called the ultimate fiscal cliff trade. find out which investment americans are pouring into. much more straight ahead. if you think running a restaurant is hard, try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. music is a universal language. but when i was in an accident... i was worried the health care system spoke a language all its own with unitedhealthcare, i got help that fit my life. information on my phone. connection to doctors who get where i'm from. and tools to estimate what my care may cost. so i never missed a beat. we're more than 78,000 people looking out for more than 70 million americans. that's health in numbers. unitedhealthcare. >>> welcome back to "fast money." oracle the latest company making a tax dividend. going to pay out a total of more than $850 million
it could be called the ultimate fiscal cliff trade. find out which investment americans are pouring into. much more straight ahead. if you think running a restaurant is hard, try running four. fortunately we've got ink. it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. music is a universal...
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Dec 2, 2012
12/12
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FOXNEWSW
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keep in mind again, you know, people call it a fiscal cliff. when you go off a cliff you usually die. my view is there are challenges in front of us. we've had them before. this is pretty significant. but we have a plan in place. no one really likes it, but at the end of the day come january, these things start to happen. the deficit gets a reduction because the tax cuts go away, the budget cuts go into play. the question is are we going to have the wherewithal to give some long-term certainty to the market so they don't have this up and down action of congress. after four years in congress i have to tell you it's one of the most disturbing thing i've seen, the lack of foresite of looking two, three, four, five years down the road. everyone plays to the next week. give it about a 40% chance of some element. the big question is have the markets worked into some of their pricing on stocks and bonds and so forth, some of this anticipation of going over these fiscal challenges? i think they probably have to to a certain degree. but it will be a rou
keep in mind again, you know, people call it a fiscal cliff. when you go off a cliff you usually die. my view is there are challenges in front of us. we've had them before. this is pretty significant. but we have a plan in place. no one really likes it, but at the end of the day come january, these things start to happen. the deficit gets a reduction because the tax cuts go away, the budget cuts go into play. the question is are we going to have the wherewithal to give some long-term certainty...
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Dec 1, 2012
12/12
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CNBC
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cliff really a fiscal slope. if they come to a compromise the politicians in washington, both republicans and democrats are going to reduce the size of deficit reduction dramatically. my argument will be let's go right down that fiscal slope. let's raise the revenue and make the cuts that have to be made which nobody in washington is willing to make. and let's take a big bite out of the deficit and restore confidence to our markets. >> that's going to kill the economy. this is one of the things i agree with. >> it will not kill the economy. >> if you do those tax increases it will. >> i want to make sure. this is a little different point. i hear you on the fiscal cliff, howard. i appreciate respect of you as much as i may disagree. what's really at stake here, one of the things at stake here, steve moore, is the idea that changing taxes, for example raising tax rates on capital and dividend and private equity firms and individuals and small business, that that doesn't matter. and what i'm saying is, when you see
cliff really a fiscal slope. if they come to a compromise the politicians in washington, both republicans and democrats are going to reduce the size of deficit reduction dramatically. my argument will be let's go right down that fiscal slope. let's raise the revenue and make the cuts that have to be made which nobody in washington is willing to make. and let's take a big bite out of the deficit and restore confidence to our markets. >> that's going to kill the economy. this is one of the...
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Dec 2, 2012
12/12
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CNNW
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i'm not sure that this fiscal cliff really is a fiscal cliff. i think that it changes the baseline. republicans get better negotiating position on the other side when they are not scared to death of their own shadow and fearful of not looking reasonable. to think that the same joker who is got us this compromise will somehow get us a better compromise is absolutely silly. some of these guys have been voted out by the american public. maybe we should wait until the new people who have been through this before and just through the campaign, when they come in and change, i just have a hard time believing this congress, the one that got us into the mess we are dealing with, will somehow field a way to get out of it. >> i understand what you're saying about waiting for the new people to come in, but many of the new people coming in and many of the old people still there are not economists, they are not experts on the economy. they are not experts on the fiscal cliff. if you speak to those who know, they will tell you it is a bad thing to go over that cliff. and still you're saying maybe
i'm not sure that this fiscal cliff really is a fiscal cliff. i think that it changes the baseline. republicans get better negotiating position on the other side when they are not scared to death of their own shadow and fearful of not looking reasonable. to think that the same joker who is got us this compromise will somehow get us a better compromise is absolutely silly. some of these guys have been voted out by the american public. maybe we should wait until the new people who have been...
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Dec 5, 2012
12/12
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CSPAN
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cliff per se but how much it is important avoiding the fiscal cliff and it -- and using it to sell these fiscal issues. i am delighted by the quality of this mission from our analysts and thank you for joining us today. [applause] >> several live events to tell you about the date on our companion network c-span 3. bob woodward and florida senator marco rubio a little after 8:00 p.m. eastern. at 10:00, the senate appropriations committee off the federal response to hurricane sandy. and the house foreign affairs committee looks in two regional influence. that is said to p.m. eastern. >> coming up next, "washington journal
cliff per se but how much it is important avoiding the fiscal cliff and it -- and using it to sell these fiscal issues. i am delighted by the quality of this mission from our analysts and thank you for joining us today. [applause] >> several live events to tell you about the date on our companion network c-span 3. bob woodward and florida senator marco rubio a little after 8:00 p.m. eastern. at 10:00, the senate appropriations committee off the federal response to hurricane sandy. and the...
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that's complicating the fiscal cliff discussions. mitch mcconnell yesterday proposed a vote on a measure that would give the president the authority to increase the debt ceiling without congressional input. this is something that the white house has proposed as part of their fiscal cliff proposal. it's a nonstarter for republicans. but he wanted to put it on the floor to show that even democrats don't support giving the president that kind of authority. he did that and harry reid turned around and said, let's see if we can do it with a simple majority for 51 votes and democrats it appeared had made sure they had that and then mitch mcconnell in return ended up objecting to the very thing he propose eed. take a listen. >> now the republican leader objects his own idea. i guess we have a filibuster of his own bill. >> so this was some maneuvering that went on. mitch mcconnell won the day when he proposed a vote overall on the entire fiscal cliff proposal and harry reid objected to it. it's a little bit of a back and forth going on in t
that's complicating the fiscal cliff discussions. mitch mcconnell yesterday proposed a vote on a measure that would give the president the authority to increase the debt ceiling without congressional input. this is something that the white house has proposed as part of their fiscal cliff proposal. it's a nonstarter for republicans. but he wanted to put it on the floor to show that even democrats don't support giving the president that kind of authority. he did that and harry reid turned around...
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fiscal cliff even with the fiscal cliff. dave: you and i agree with it will take to get the economy growing stronger because we are like-minded with that. you don't like the economic policies the president is proposing. dozen there come a time when those economic policies to stifle the economy and strip it up? >> absolutely. when we look back in history 1970s had big growth in government and when you have big spending like we do today you get weaker growth. france for 40 years has grown numb to% real gdp and 8% unemployment. they think it is normal. the good news is america doesn't think it is normal and you have to keep pounding the table that this isn't normal. it is not good. so do i. the only way to get back up to good growth is to cut the size of the government. i still believe we have eight to ten years even on the crazy course we are on right now before we are anything like one of these european countries. this is still an amazingly powerful entrepreneurial place. i am betting on the entrepreneur and even though the g
fiscal cliff even with the fiscal cliff. dave: you and i agree with it will take to get the economy growing stronger because we are like-minded with that. you don't like the economic policies the president is proposing. dozen there come a time when those economic policies to stifle the economy and strip it up? >> absolutely. when we look back in history 1970s had big growth in government and when you have big spending like we do today you get weaker growth. france for 40 years has grown...
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fiscal cliff, no fiscal cliff, that will be good for gold. investors will look for a safe haven and alternative to the u.s. dollar and they will be buying these assets. kind of a word of advise. ashley: interesting. tracy: sandy, while you were at the cme last week you said guys were saying 95 to $100 on oil. that is the consensus all around. >> keep watching that guy. we're near 90 bucks again. tracy: thank you, sandra. >> thank you. ashley: investors watching the latest developments on the fiscal cliff plus new taak that the fed, guess what, will continue its bond buying programs next year. for more on the markets, i'm joined by bob pavlick, chief market strategist at banyon partners. bob, thanks so much for being here. let's get to the fed issue here. so what is what i say. they will expand or continue the program of buying assets. what impact will this have if any? >> operation twist what they call it. sell short paper and buy long term bonds in order, in an effort to try to continue to keep long-term interest rates low. really what it is
fiscal cliff, no fiscal cliff, that will be good for gold. investors will look for a safe haven and alternative to the u.s. dollar and they will be buying these assets. kind of a word of advise. ashley: interesting. tracy: sandy, while you were at the cme last week you said guys were saying 95 to $100 on oil. that is the consensus all around. >> keep watching that guy. we're near 90 bucks again. tracy: thank you, sandra. >> thank you. ashley: investors watching the latest...
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Nov 30, 2012
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way they stave off the fiscal cliff. spending cuts at the end of the fiscal year. it has really shocked republicans this year on capitol hill. they say it calls for, for one thing, $1.6 trillion in new tax hikes over a decade. it is also stimulus spending and the spending cuts. both sides are necessary to reduce the deficit. those the president would largely tackle later perhaps next year. >> first despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet to get serious about real spending cuts. no substantive progress has been made in the talks between the white house and the house over the last two weeks. listen, this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line and this is a moment for adult leadership. >> perhaps most su prirprising the white house proposal to get the president just about unlimited power to raise the nation's debt sealiceiling and w more and more money unless they reject. these will be tough negotiations ahead. we got a little sample of thi
way they stave off the fiscal cliff. spending cuts at the end of the fiscal year. it has really shocked republicans this year on capitol hill. they say it calls for, for one thing, $1.6 trillion in new tax hikes over a decade. it is also stimulus spending and the spending cuts. both sides are necessary to reduce the deficit. those the president would largely tackle later perhaps next year. >> first despite the claims that the president supports a balanced approach, the democrats have yet...
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this all comes as we get word that the fiscal cliff talks will boil down to what happens between two people and only two people. president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the november jobs report numbers. they look very good, good news overall for the koirnlt tree. but speaker boehner said this, the democrats plan to slow walk our economy to the edge of the fiscal cliff instead of engaging in serious talks to avert the cliff, that includes spending cuts and tax reforms the president once supported. the white house has only offered a joke. i understand we have speaker boehner to the microphones. let's take a listen. >> when it comes to the fiscal cliff that's threatening our economy and threatening jobs, the white house has wasted another week. eight days ago secretary geithne
this all comes as we get word that the fiscal cliff talks will boil down to what happens between two people and only two people. president obama and john boehner. even all sides of the party are excluded. >>> with 25 days before taxes go up for nearly every single american, what effect will the jobs report have on the fiscal standoff? we'll get live remarks from john boehner who is going to try to use the jobs report to the republican's advantage. representative, let's start with the...
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a lot to get into this morning as we talk about the fiscal cliff. erskine bowles says he thinks democrats and republicans are serious about getting a deal done, but when you hear congressman cole walking back statements, do you think that's true? >> cole doesn't want to be a political target of the right. so he can easily say i really didn't mean that prks and to ge of the news. and probably trying to set the table for other guys. which is a signal that the right wing is still very stuck in con kreetd as you said earlier. they don't want to move. they are denying election results. but there is real ominous things i think that are starting to surface here. any talk of a mortgage deduction change would be horrendous in my opinion and it would fly in the face of everything barack obama and joe biden ran on in protecting middle class. they have to be crystal clear that that is off the table. the housing crisis started the last recession. if they go after mortgage deductions, if they put that on the table even for high end homes, that will change sales,
a lot to get into this morning as we talk about the fiscal cliff. erskine bowles says he thinks democrats and republicans are serious about getting a deal done, but when you hear congressman cole walking back statements, do you think that's true? >> cole doesn't want to be a political target of the right. so he can easily say i really didn't mean that prks and to ge of the news. and probably trying to set the table for other guys. which is a signal that the right wing is still very stuck...
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going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013. unemployment would raise to 9.1% and the economy would experience what cbo said would be judged as a recession. but after that, then things start to look pretty good. the cbo says after next year by the agency's estimates economic growth will pick up. the labor market will strengthen returning output to its potential level. 5.5% by 2018. essentially if no deal is struck, the federal government would be forced to do what it's refused to do willingly, make dramatic changes in taxes and spending. if those changes happen automatically,
going off that fiscal cliff. to this point most of the conversation has been focused on what happens in january, and for good reason. there's no deal in congress. tax rates go up for a lot of folks, all americans. and a $1.2 trillion worth of defense and spending cuts will be automatically enacted. excuse me, that fiscal cough i told you about. the alternative minimum tax kicks in and put it all together and the results are pretty. the economy would contract by half a percent in 2013....
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congress designed the fiscal cliff. i think probably senator thune from south dakota is making the most sense last night saying maybe we should kick the can down the road for six months instead of trying to rush it i'm not a fan of kicking the can down the road, that's what congress does. in this case, you have everyone scrambling, trying to examine the ramifications of the election. you have new people coming in. some of the people voting were thrown out of congress. why not wait until the 1st of the year. >> kicking the can, you look at markets today. you have global markets up. stock futures are up. the stock market was up yesterday because this whole idea of optimism from john boehner and the president that this could get done by the end of the year is something the world wants to see. you look at our polling. our polling shows, and the most recent poll from abc news/"washington post," 60% of people support raising tacks on incomes over $250,000 per year. isn't the argument of kicking the can down the road losing so
congress designed the fiscal cliff. i think probably senator thune from south dakota is making the most sense last night saying maybe we should kick the can down the road for six months instead of trying to rush it i'm not a fan of kicking the can down the road, that's what congress does. in this case, you have everyone scrambling, trying to examine the ramifications of the election. you have new people coming in. some of the people voting were thrown out of congress. why not wait until the 1st...
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. >> jennifer: karl, is the fiscal cliff a republican party? it's a problem for us, but the political side, isn't it really a problem for them? >> it's a huge problem not just in the immediate where we are right now sense of the word. i'm surprised when they showed them to blame i guess in the halls of congress the republicans said yes we're ahead in the poll. this boiled down to their fading power with their fading demographics in the country and the demographics that look poorly on them. acting as spoiled children that hold this country ransom does not help them with any of the demographics that reelected this house, increased the number of democrats in the house or the senate. >> the tea party might say we won one and we lost one. we won 2010. we lost 2012 because we were too moderate. we had a meally mouth nominee-- >> i believethey're in a position-- >> if they act like real conservatives, real nut jobs, then we're proven right. they're blinded by their own ideology. >> i'm not surprised that a party who does not believe in evolution has o
. >> jennifer: karl, is the fiscal cliff a republican party? it's a problem for us, but the political side, isn't it really a problem for them? >> it's a huge problem not just in the immediate where we are right now sense of the word. i'm surprised when they showed them to blame i guess in the halls of congress the republicans said yes we're ahead in the poll. this boiled down to their fading power with their fading demographics in the country and the demographics that look poorly...
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Dec 7, 2012
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it is the fiscal cliff. if we go over that, if all the tax cuts expire, if we have the sequester, if we don't extend payroll tax relief and unemployment benefits, we will end up at the end of 2013 with about over 3 million fewer jobs than we would have had otherwise. just imagine that. the fiscal cliff is going cost the economy in that order of magnitude, 3 million jobs. we should not, not, not go over that cliff. now -- >> by the same token, though, his point about -- and i don't want to make this about ed. the fact remains that the debt levels we have in this country in effect put a cap on growth right now. >> sure, sure, sure. i think that economists have been saying for years -- i have said repeatedly, economists on both sides of the aisle have said repeatedly what we need is a long-term plan for deficit reduction that begins to take effect when the economy is closer to its capacity. right now it's at least 6% below its capacity. the unemployment rate, 7.7, it should be like 5.7 at capacity. we should no
it is the fiscal cliff. if we go over that, if all the tax cuts expire, if we have the sequester, if we don't extend payroll tax relief and unemployment benefits, we will end up at the end of 2013 with about over 3 million fewer jobs than we would have had otherwise. just imagine that. the fiscal cliff is going cost the economy in that order of magnitude, 3 million jobs. we should not, not, not go over that cliff. now -- >> by the same token, though, his point about -- and i don't want to...
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it may be a fiscal cliff. it's only trading next times next year's numbers and we care where a stock is going, not where it's coming from you wait for the pull-back in the second half and then you put in your other half of the position. bottom line, dickers has come back from the dead. because now the fundamentals seem like they could be turning. the idea that the company could catch a takeover bid from somebody like vf corp. seems more plausible by the day. half a position now and wait for deckers to come in before you buy any more. this stock will go down on a fiscal cliff situation that might be the chance to buy the rest. "mad money" is back after the break. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ] look this isn't my fi
it may be a fiscal cliff. it's only trading next times next year's numbers and we care where a stock is going, not where it's coming from you wait for the pull-back in the second half and then you put in your other half of the position. bottom line, dickers has come back from the dead. because now the fundamentals seem like they could be turning. the idea that the company could catch a takeover bid from somebody like vf corp. seems more plausible by the day. half a position now and wait for...
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it is a republican compromise solution to the impending fiscal cliff. spending cut and tax increases that both sides mean would mean recession. after what both sides called a frustrating weekend. today's development don't appear to break a log jam. not yet. ed henry begins our coverage. >> reporter: good evening. they are saying the plan is ridiculous, so much so they will not offer counterproposal to the g.o.p. counterproposal and say tonight unless speaker boehner gives in on raising taxes on the rich, the president is ready to go off the cliff. >> right now i'd say we are nowhere, period. nowhere. >> john boehner declaring a stalemate in an exclusive with fox, as republicans teed off on president obama first offer that included new spending plus 1.6 trillion in tax hikes. totally unacceptable. >> i think we are going over the cliff. it's clear to me they made political calculation. white house officials insisted disaster could be amended and demanded a counter offer on the table. >> what we hope for is specificity from the republicans. >> an hour lat
it is a republican compromise solution to the impending fiscal cliff. spending cut and tax increases that both sides mean would mean recession. after what both sides called a frustrating weekend. today's development don't appear to break a log jam. not yet. ed henry begins our coverage. >> reporter: good evening. they are saying the plan is ridiculous, so much so they will not offer counterproposal to the g.o.p. counterproposal and say tonight unless speaker boehner gives in on raising...
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and washington is playing fiscal with the fiscal cliff. -- playing chicken with the fiscal cliff. this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan managed to solve problems and get along. listen to what john mccain said about what we need here. >> it's time now to sit across the table from one another, rather than -- in the way they did with ronald reagan and the way you get things done in washington. >> the way they did with ronald reagan and get things done in washington. you sit together and figure it out. they were at a holiday party they didn't talk to each other. they're issuing sort of statements and rebuttals and saying i'm not going to budge. >> negotiation by press release. this is not how things get done in washington and part of
and washington is playing fiscal with the fiscal cliff. -- playing chicken with the fiscal cliff. this deal will only get done by president obama and john boehner making a deal. they came close in the summer of 2011. the parties are so polarized and partisans polarized this is a problem. >> i keep saying we need a presidential historian or hostage negotiator. somebody could say we've been at stalemates before, gotten over it, shut down the government in '96. tip o'neill and ronald reagan...
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the fiscal cliff issue. i want to show you a bit this morning of president obama in an interview with the bloomberg tv on tuesday talking about where he is in the debate. [video clip] >> i did not expect republicans to agree to any plan where they are betting that the entitlement reform will happen. we will have to have specific downpayments now recognizing we will have to continue to work to see if we can come up with better ideas to reduce health- care costs over the long term. that is the framework we are operating on. within that framework, i am happy to be flexible. i recognize i will not get 100%. i will not agree to a plan a in which we have some revenue that is vague and potentially comes out of the pockets of middle- class families in exchange for some very specific entitlement cuts that would affect seniors or other folks who are vulnerable. host: president obama with the bloomberg tv. next up, sarah on the republican line. caller: i think president obama is blackmailing the congress. he thinks sin
the fiscal cliff issue. i want to show you a bit this morning of president obama in an interview with the bloomberg tv on tuesday talking about where he is in the debate. [video clip] >> i did not expect republicans to agree to any plan where they are betting that the entitlement reform will happen. we will have to have specific downpayments now recognizing we will have to continue to work to see if we can come up with better ideas to reduce health- care costs over the long term. that is...
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later, nancy pelosi addresses the fiscal cliff and middle- class tax cuts. president obama talked about the so-called fiscal cliff and his proposal to end of the bush tax cuts on those earning more than two and a $50,000. ed -- more than $250,000. ["hail to the chief" plays] please have a seat. have a seat. relax for a second. it is good to see all of you. hello. it is good to be back in pennsylvania. it is good to be right here. i want to thank michael, robert, and the investor, joel glickman for hosting me today and giving me a great tour. stand up so everybody can see you, guys. [cheers and applause] there you go. we have a couple of outstanding members of congress here. [cheers and applause] now, i just finished getting a tour of the workshop. i have to say it makes me wish that joel invented this stuff sooner when i was a kid. back then, you couldn't build a roller coaster out of your erector set. i got a chance to meet some of the folks who have been working around the clock to keep up with the christmas rush. that is a good thing. these guys are santa
later, nancy pelosi addresses the fiscal cliff and middle- class tax cuts. president obama talked about the so-called fiscal cliff and his proposal to end of the bush tax cuts on those earning more than two and a $50,000. ed -- more than $250,000. ["hail to the chief" plays] please have a seat. have a seat. relax for a second. it is good to see all of you. hello. it is good to be back in pennsylvania. it is good to be right here. i want to thank michael, robert, and the investor, joel...
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get to the fiscal cliff in a second. but first, the job report this morning, 7.7% unemployment because so many people left the workforce. 146,000 jobs. the question a lot of people are asking is when are we going get back to good honest job creation to grow the economy? what is it going to take? >> political will in a word. what is interesting about the jobs numbers and the economy in general is that it's not so much the fundamentals of the economy. businesses who hire people who create jobs which nancy pelosi is looking for are looking for political will out of washington. they are looking for certainty on the fiscal cliff. certainty that debt reduction, there will be debt reduction, that entitlements will be brought under control. looking for certainty on taxe taxes. until this happens, there isn't going to be that certainly. i have to say that the republicans showed the political will. they stood up, to the conservative base. they put the re-knews on the table. what troubles me -- now that the ball is in the white hou
get to the fiscal cliff in a second. but first, the job report this morning, 7.7% unemployment because so many people left the workforce. 146,000 jobs. the question a lot of people are asking is when are we going get back to good honest job creation to grow the economy? what is it going to take? >> political will in a word. what is interesting about the jobs numbers and the economy in general is that it's not so much the fundamentals of the economy. businesses who hire people who create...
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so that will put him front and center in the fiscal cliff debate. also earns him a meeting today with the current treasury secretary, tim geithner. cnn's kate ballolduan on capito hill, day 33, eek, 33 days, tim geithner kicking into this process. we would assume possibly pushing into high gear or more of a photo op or a little bit of both? >> reporter: it remains to be seen. i hate having to say that for our viewers, but we're waiting to hear exactly what comes out of these meetings. important, nonetheless, because these are face-to-face meetings with principle players, timothy guide next the treasury secretary, tapped by the president to be the point person to spearhead the negotiations with congress over these fiscal cliff negotiations. we had had a brief shot of him arriving this morning as he was coming into the capitol. he's being joined by rob neighbors, the white house liaison to congress. he's a man that has long standing relationships with folks on capitol hill. series of meetings, all individual meetings, senator reid, told by my colleagu
so that will put him front and center in the fiscal cliff debate. also earns him a meeting today with the current treasury secretary, tim geithner. cnn's kate ballolduan on capito hill, day 33, eek, 33 days, tim geithner kicking into this process. we would assume possibly pushing into high gear or more of a photo op or a little bit of both? >> reporter: it remains to be seen. i hate having to say that for our viewers, but we're waiting to hear exactly what comes out of these meetings....
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. >> and the speaker tweeted, "how serious is the white house about avoiding the fiscal cliff?" reports suggest, in some cases, not so serious. and also, joanne, what is the strategy here, and is there a risk like looking like you're not really negotiating? >> well, you know, i think what's interesting is that there's the posture that everyone is taking in public, but then what you're hearing behind the scenes is that everyone's sort of understands what the contours of the deal are going to look like. and what i see is john boehner trying to sort of protect his caucus at this point because he probably understands that at the end of the day, that top rate is going to go up. and republicans are in a really awkward position because right now essentially they're just defending the tax cut for the top 2%. at the same time, the white house's public posture is to say well, no, we don't want to go over the fiscal cliff because you don't want to send that message to the markets. but then behind the scenes you sort of get the feeling they'd be willing to do it and they'd be okay at least
. >> and the speaker tweeted, "how serious is the white house about avoiding the fiscal cliff?" reports suggest, in some cases, not so serious. and also, joanne, what is the strategy here, and is there a risk like looking like you're not really negotiating? >> well, you know, i think what's interesting is that there's the posture that everyone is taking in public, but then what you're hearing behind the scenes is that everyone's sort of understands what the contours of the...
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this fiscal cliff though is not child's play. it's just 33 days away and today, president obama's visit to a toy factory in pennsylvania had everyone acting a bit childish. >> i've been keeping my own naughty and nice lists. >> we're not interesting in playing rope a dope. >> i wasn't going to have him building roller coasters all day long. >> sure, who doesn't want to be a kid again, but washington, you have real work to do. a looming fiscal cliff and what are we hearing? as republican senator jeff sessions says -- >> a lot of flimflam. >> flimflam. we told you last night that treasure secretary tim geithner hop-scotched his way down pennsylvania avenue to bring the president's proposal from the white house to capitol hill and instead of offering compromise, he leapt to the extreme. in case you forgot, here's what his plan does. his plan taxes $1.6 trillion of taxes. higher tax rates on people, families making more than $250,000 as well as closing loopholes, limiting deductions, raising the estate tax rate and increasing the tax
this fiscal cliff though is not child's play. it's just 33 days away and today, president obama's visit to a toy factory in pennsylvania had everyone acting a bit childish. >> i've been keeping my own naughty and nice lists. >> we're not interesting in playing rope a dope. >> i wasn't going to have him building roller coasters all day long. >> sure, who doesn't want to be a kid again, but washington, you have real work to do. a looming fiscal cliff and what are we...
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cliff now and they're calling it the fiscal cliff because they don't want to e embrace either the tax increases or spending cuts and i think it's foolish to think this congress can come up with a better deal. >> you know what's interesting, to eric's point, there is a great irony in this that the democrats are saying we've got to raise taxes and the fiscal cliff does both. just not in the way anybody wants it, so if they can't do that, how are they going to find a way they can all agree on? >> the superfailed committee. this is a giant hatchet as opposed to a scalpel. >> it was designed to fail. >> i agree, but the real solution and real irony is going to be the ultimate deal's going to look like the obama boehner grand bargain that was negotiated and almost done in the summer of 2011. the fact that we couldn't make that deal then i think's a tragedy for the country. one of the thing's it did was lead to that aaa downgrading. that was unnecessary. >> let me just follow up on this point of what republicans should accept. you said you'd go back to the clinton era tax rates if you could
cliff now and they're calling it the fiscal cliff because they don't want to e embrace either the tax increases or spending cuts and i think it's foolish to think this congress can come up with a better deal. >> you know what's interesting, to eric's point, there is a great irony in this that the democrats are saying we've got to raise taxes and the fiscal cliff does both. just not in the way anybody wants it, so if they can't do that, how are they going to find a way they can all agree...